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 Post subject: Hand fed baby parrots - exposing the truth
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:07 pm 
Crusty Old Bird
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We did a program every night this past week at the Schuylkill County Fair. We decided to try out our Born to be Wild program even though Windigo couldn’t yet be included. We did a mix of PA wildlife and exotics. We wanted to get the concept of “exotics are wildlife from somewhere else” and we wanted to introduce the concept of parrot rescue. PB went to every program.

Here are pics from Wednesday Night's Program:
http://redcreekwildlifecenter.com/blog/?p=91

Throughout the week we added to the program and subtracted what didn’t come out very well. By the last night we hit on a theme that left the audience stunned and I think we hit pay-dirt. I got the feeling that no one in the audience that night would ever buy a baby parrot.

We started with Gabriel our Great Horned Owl. His example explained the concept of imprinting. We also explained that he was a unique bird that fared well in his state and that he raises baby owlets so they do not suffer the same fate. We explained the biology behind imprinting and how that imprint helps a bird find a mate later in life of the correct species.

We then introduced Hannibal the Turkey Vulture, also a human imprint. We explained how this handicaps him emotionally, that this sociable bird has no companions because other vultures attack him. He never learned proper vulture etiquette. We demonstrated the size of his flight and how limited that was to a bird for a bird that could soar 8 hours at a time and travel from one continent to another.

By the time we got done those 2 birds, people understood imprinting and were shaking their heads in disgust at how it denied these wonderful birds their freedom and, sometimes, their sanity.

Then we introduced PB and said we wanted to expose a lie being fed to the American people. I asked what people thought of hand-fed baby parrots being “tame.” They got it. The understood that parrots aren’t “tamed” but imprinted. We then went on to talk about how the baby parrot thinks it’s original owner is it’s parent and, when mature, will want to leave the parent family to create his own.

As we were telling PB's story, we mentioned that “this isn’t a horror show, there is an answer.” And we explained how parrots need homes and are looking for their own family in rescues. How each parrot in a rescue was once a baby and has been through the maturing stage and is looking for their lifelong companion.

The people left asking tons of questions. We heard how it all makes sense once you understand the biology behind it. That last day, people thanked us for teaching them not to make a mistake. They got it.

Here is the handout we gave along with Red Creek and SCB cards:

Quote:
Hand Fed Baby Parrots

I’ve often heard that hand-raised parrots make the best pets because they “bond” with people and prefer human contact. I’ve been told that hand-raised babies are “sweet babies that desire human affection.” Breeders often tout that friendliness and tameness to the familiarity and habituation that comes with hand feeding. But how that baby parrot becomes bonded to humans is often misunderstood.

There is a physical biology that takes place when a baby bird is hand-raised by a person. That biological condition is called “imprinting” and it can scar a bird for life, leaving it confused, frustrated and self destructive.

Most mammals and birds recognize their own species through this process called imprinting. When an animal is very young and its eyes begin to focus, it looks at who is caring for it, nurturing, feeding and protecting it. From this individual it gets a mental picture of who he is. This picture (or imprint) stays with the animal its entire life and once formed, can not be changed.

Exactly when this happens depends on the species. Ducks and geese, for instance, imprint almost immediately, and it is reinforced the first couple weeks of its life. A Great Horned Owl’s eyes begin to focus at about 2 weeks of age. Imprinting takes place shortly thereafter. Parrot’s eyes open and focus at various stages of their development depending on the species.

This imprint not only gives an animal its identity, it also serves to help it choose a mate later in life. When that bird becomes sexually mature it will refer to that original “imprint” to choose a proper mate. You can say a bird is looking for a mate “JUST LIKE MOM.” This is why a Blue Bird doesn’t attempt to mate with a Blue Jay. It is the right color but the wrong size and shape. A Blue Jay wouldn’t attempt to mate with a Cardinal because, although it’s the right shape, it is the wrong color. The wrong species doesn’t match that imprint.

In the wild this works quite well: Geese raise geese, crows raise crows, Conures raise Conures and Macaws raise Macaws. But when a person hand raises a bird, that bird can grow up believing it is a person and nothing you do later in life will change its mind.

Often with hand-raised parrots, everything goes quite well for the first few years. The juvenile parrot bonds to its human family and enjoys their companionship. Its natural instincts do not go away though, and the bird, behaving like a bird, often gets in trouble because although it thinks it’s human, it doesn’t act like one.

Then comes sexual maturity when the strongest instinct surfaces…the desire to procreate. This is when some real problems can surface. It may not recognize its owner as a mate, but a parent. Its instinct is to leave the parent family, move on, find a mate and start its own primary family. It can become aggressive to its owner because it wants to leave.

Not being able to separate from its parent family it can become depressed, violent and self destructive, pulling feathers and self mutilate. The people have no idea why their idyllic little baby has turned into a self-destructive little terror.

Consider what it would be like to be raised from an infant on another planet by a species completely different from humans. You would learn the social life of your alien family and begin to bond with others. At puberty you would have the desire for closer physical contact and fall in love with another. Consider how you would feel if you were completely incapable of physically bonding with that species. You would be an outcast, alone and confused.

That is how a parrot feels about procreating with its “human” species. Think of the frustration that comes with not understanding why the “chosen mate” doesn’t fulfill your physical needs and the fact that mating attempts end in failure. In an attempt to encourage mating behavior, the parrot may regurgitate on and bite the chosen person. If the person doesn’t understand the behavior, the parrot is often caged or punished and the parrot feels rejected by its chosen mate.

Suddenly that sweet, tame bird becomes, hurt, angry, frustrated and very alone. Many will turn on their chosen person violently while others turn on themselves through plucking and mutilation. Even if self destructive behaviors do not surface, the bird suffers from an emptiness that no human can ever completely fill.

This is not the pleasant scenario painted by breeders but the stark reality behind that sweet baby parrot in the cage.

If you have a hand raised parrot, you are not alone and there are ways you can help your bird live a more comfortable life. Only through understanding can the situation be dealt with positively. Through learning what is natural parrot behavior and allowing your bird to “be a bird” you can more fully understand and meet its needs.

If you are thinking of purchasing a hand raised parrot, hopefully understanding the biology behind that sweet baby will help you rethink that purchase. For every baby parrot that is purchased, another is bred, beginning the cycle of frustration and suffering for another unlucky bird.

There is an answer though. Adopting from a Parrot Rescue, where you can meet mature birds that are looking for that “lifelong commitment” and allowing that bird to choose you, can be a satisfying way to obtain a parrot. You are not adding to the problem and have a bird who will appreciate the love and devotion you can give.

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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:09 pm 
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Peggy,

WOW!! No wonder people understood!

KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) really works! what you quoted should be on every board on the internet that has anything to do with birds.

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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:04 pm 
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I know a few boards that this needs to be, with your permission.
I'm going to write to the managers of those boards now for permission to post
THANK YOU! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!!!


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:11 pm 
Crusty Old Bird
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The part that I "quoted" I originally wrote about a year or so ago. You may use it.

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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:21 pm 
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That really works! CL is right about KISS.

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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:37 pm 
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PaRehabber wrote:
The part that I "quoted" I originally wrote about a year or so ago. You may use it.


COOL! I already emailed the managers of the 3 boards that I play on with a copy, and permission to post

OT---- guess what I just saw for the first time in I can't tell you how long...
A vulture circling overhead.... IN A CHICAGO SUBURB!!!!! :shock:
Too neat! :mrgreen:


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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:15 pm 
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That is really an amazing explanation of what happens.

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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:07 pm 
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Superb!! Good explanation for any age! :appl :appl :appl :appl

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 Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:59 pm 
Crusty Old Bird
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Excellent Peggy. Dr. Seuss' "Are you my Mother" comes to mind when I read about imprinting.

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 Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:09 pm 
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I was thinking the same thing, Cathy- that was one of my sons favorites, and I still can see that cover in my mind.

Peggy- :appl - to you and Morrie, and to PB and your other ambassadors. The pics were great- and PB looked so at ease, and your boa is beautiful! You won't by any chance be going to the West End Fair, would ya? ;)

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 Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:25 pm 
Crusty Old Bird
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I just loved that book Ayers. I'm pretty sure I kept it.

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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:17 pm 
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Peggy, I added your quoted material in a blog on my new MySpace page (with credit and links of course). After I get a bunch more "friends" over there, I'll make a bulletin of it. It's much too good not to pass around.

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If you must cripple a creature to keep it, perhaps you should reconsider its suitability as a pet.
We must never forget the one who inspired me... my precious Baby!


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:56 pm 
OMG! I was looking for tips on helping your bird adjust to moving and found this.

THANK YOU!!!

I am printing this up right away and giving it to my MIL!!!! This is just the thing to stop her pressuring me to take a "hand fed socialized loving baby"!!!!


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 Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:53 pm 
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:mrgreen:

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If you must cripple a creature to keep it, perhaps you should reconsider its suitability as a pet.
We must never forget the one who inspired me... my precious Baby!


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 Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:12 pm 
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Shanna, Would your MIL consider coming here?

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 Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:54 pm 
Wellllll, I might ask her after she reads the article and I see her responce.

You see, we foster dogs for the SPCA, and they foster dogs for a pure bred rescue.

She is all for rescue...and willingly Fosters and trains...but she is would not own an SPCA dog herself. She completely and totally believes in BREEDER responsibility, spaying and neutering, and thinks there should NEVER EVER be a back yard breeder. All animals should be neutered before going to their new home. Any and all breeding of dogs and cats and parrots should be monitored, liscenced and inspected. She believes things should be more like in Europe where it is harder to even own a pet, and you have to have liscences and apply. That training isn't an option but the law. She believes that almost all shelter dogs are the result of bad breeding by irresposible people. It just makes her furious. I have to admit, most of the animals we do get are "back yard, lets give the kids an education" or "I wanted to make money but they are making a mess and no one is buying them " or He was so cute in the puppymill petstore but he keeps peeing on my floor .. animals. It isn't the animals fault. She admits that.

She has the same view with birds. There should NEVER be a pet store selling a bird. EVER. You should only get your bird from a quality, inspected, breeder. That there should be no bird rescues, because if all the breeders were responsible they would take their bird back or have made sure it was a responsible educated person taking the bird in the first place. A rehome is not a rescue. A rehome is a responsible person having a life crisis or serious illness. There would be enough homes if those were the only animals.

So, she sees rescues as pushing Unsocialized, badly breed, untrained, irresponsibly sold, inbreed birds. In a dog, that can be dangerous around children and even adults. God knows irresponsible purebred breeding has done that to dogs. I have to admit, we have had puppies born from abandoned moms that were mentally unfit to place even as a puppy.

She thinks rescue animals should go to specially trained people that know how to deal with their potential inbred health, and behavioral problems. Never to the general public, never to a home with children, never to a young single person who might potentially have young children in the future. Their purebred dog rescue has the same guidelines.

Sarah was not a rehome. Sarah was a rescue I got from an abusive situation. Therefore, she believes Sarah never should have been around children again. Adults can chose to risk working with an animal that is going to have behavior issues. Children don't have the choice and should never be forced to live in a home with an animal that might be a risk. Period.

We do agree in a lot of areas. We just happen to disagree in others.
I think the animals should go to homes where people are willing to try and work with their problems, knowing what they might get into. She believes that some of these birds shouldn't be "rescued" and shot full of hormones and forced to suffer through surgery after surgery. That rescues make those animals lives a misery. A mutilating animal doesn't want to be there. Wild animals mutilate themselves to get out of traps and away from situations. So it obviously isn't happy in that rescue or its previous home and shouldn't even be a pet. She thinks rescues need to be more humane and put them down or permanent sanctuary them.

Sorry for the long post, but I sent her to another site I go to and after reading about the mutilating birds and how one bird went through many surgies and died during another one...she was not impressed. She was horrified and ill. So if I invited her here, she would be expressing all the opinions I mentioned above. If you still think I should invite her, and that you can change her mind, I can offer her to come here.

Everyone here seems very openminded and sincerely willing to try and help people that join this board.


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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:47 am 
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I'm sorry, I know it's not funny, but reading some parts of her view made me laugh out loud. Does she have ANY idea of the number of animals (dogs, cats, birds, ferret, you name it) out there RIGHT NOW that are displaced? Sorry, but those ideas are fantasy, not reality and won't do the thousands of birds out there right now needing help that will live for decades and decades to come any good. Specially trained people?!?! Does she know how hard it is to get anyone to even change freaking papers for a rescue?!!? Who is going to pay these specially trained people? Or let me guess... they're going to be expected to handle ALL of the dirty work by themselves, without aid, right? So that people who adopt can have nicely socialized birds, right?? The idea of socialization and "proper breeding" creating a super bird that doesn't have reproductive drives (which I honestly think is the real cause of the STRESS that underlies many common problem behaviors) is a joke. You can't just "fix" birds like you can dogs and cats... the surgery is invasive and in the case of the males nearly impossible. Try dealing with un-neutered and un-spayed pure bred dogs or cats for a while and see how behavior modification works out.

Oh, I agree, in future - it should be a law that all breeders should have to pass inspections, tests, be licensed, etc. (Actually in the case of wild animals I think they shouldn't be permitted in captivity and that includes most types of parrots, ferrets, herps, and yes, even some species of fish.) But that's not going to happen. Hell, you can't even get a law passed in one state to require the spaying and neutering of non-breeder animals. I love that philosophy, and you know what if people did it her way there would be far FEWER displaced animals - right now I'd take that over what's happening now... but just ain't gonna' happen. :mrgreen:

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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:55 am 
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I re-read this a couple of times and need to ask, 'what about (her opinions) of the human race? I won't go any further than that.

I do agree that we are all on the same page as far as making breeders more responsible.
As for changing her mind, well some people you just can't. I might not be here to try and change her mind, but maybe, just maybe have her see something a little differently that can cause a different outlook. That is a start.

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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:56 am 
I did forget one thing. She has dual citizenship. In Sweden, the laws are much much stiffer for any pet ownership and especially for breeding. She isn't american by birth. Therefore...she was raised with different views, different laws, and she doesn't believe that birds should be spayed or neutered....the owners should be prosecuted by law if they don't shake the eggs and the animals taken away. Period. You not a breeder with liscense you don't breed. She believes America is much to ..uhm..."free" in some repects.


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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:00 am 
Well, in his family's culture I guess you don't have more then two children. If his first son wasn't adopted and with his ex she might not have accepted me having two children :EMB:

She also believes many animals shouldn't be kept as pets.


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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:19 am 
Crusty Old Bird
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Actually, she's not that far from learning the truth. 1st, she feels (some) responsibility in order. 2nd, her ideas are to help the animals. Her thinking is closer to ours than you think.

See, many years ago her ideas could have came out of my mouth. I used to breed Standard Poodles and did it responsibly. It took an animal to turn me around, a cockatoo named Rocky, that shook my beliefs to the core.

There is hope there.

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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:35 am 
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Shanna,
We ARE here to help. To actually change someones mind is a very hard thing to do, but your MIL seems to be willing to listen to other points of view ......really, that's all you can ask of her. If she is willing to listen to another point of view & take some of that knowledge with her then GREAT! Sarah benefits as do you & your family & who knows, maybe she will be an asset to SCB. It sounds as though she may be open-minded enough to try some things we suggest to help Sarah.

In the end it's all a matter of respect.

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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:24 pm 
OK

She read the article and was actually familiar with this :shock:

MIL said this is EXACTLY why the breeder she knows leaves the her babies with their parents for so long before beginning the handfeeding. Parrots need to KNOW they are birds, and no breeder can ever duplicate the love, care, and proper guidance that the parent birds give. If birds don't know they are birds, they inappropriately bond to humans.

She is very small time, responsible, only a few species, has a waiting list, and the application for a baby is longer then a home loan. IF you pass she will sell you one, after appropriate training sessions and education. Every single member of your family must attend. Her operation is like a boot camp for humans learning parrot behavior. Wish there more like her. She actually advocates having more then one bird in the home so a bird has another of its kind, even if not the same species, to interact with. She also sided with me on the issue of Sarah and water bottles...YIPEE.

She doesn't believe that cockatoos should be pets...ever. She won't sell to you if you own one, period. If you have a Too, you don't have time for another bird. MIL disagrees on that point, she likes Toos :P

I did give her the site addy. She might go online at the library and check it out.


OMG!!! My hubby told me she is baking Sarah a cake and got me Sally Blanchards new book and wants to know if she can read it when I am done :shock:


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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:48 pm 
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Quote:
Actually, she's not that far from learning the truth. 1st, she feels (some) responsibility in order. 2nd, her ideas are to help the animals. Her thinking is closer to ours than you think.


No doubt she is much closer to us than many, many people are. Being immersed in the realities of the rescue world has changed some of my views and some things that seemed reachable years ago now seem incredibly difficult. I'm a "jaded, old crusty" and hope I didn't come across as harsh. Philosophy is great (and I have lots of my own!!) but reality is where I am forced to live.

I'm so glad they're (your MIL and SIL) taking an active interest in Sarah. Perhaps she (and others like her) will be a vehicle to take those basic ideas and principles and make them into realistic goals. You already know not to push and how to appreciate her for who and what she is... perhaps you can share that wonder with them. The best feeling in the world is seeing someone "get it", watching them open their eyes and see that they are staring at a truly wild animal. No matter how it was raised, or where it was bred or how socialized/unsocialized... that's when it clicks!

The biggest issue I see in the animal welfare community is the fact that many folks are so focused on the huge, long term goals with no idea how to get there. People's egos get involved and instead of saying "is this realistic" they plunge forward screaming "this is the right thing to do" - they forget it has to be both realistic and right. Me, I don't know how to get there either, so I focus on the here and now... how can I make my one corner of the world better? How can I help my local rescue and our local population of displaced birds? There's enough in this one little area to drown me... I could spend months worth of 40 hour weeks just right here. If someone has realistic ways to get where we all want to go, I'm all ears. OK, enough philosophical babble... birds are calling :mrgreen:

_________________
Deuce & Bella :TAG: Pepper :AG: Charlie & Hoppy :G2: Xylon :CIT2: The Meep Meeps :FINCH: X 9


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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:58 pm 
I guess I can see your point. She really isn't that different, because she does genuinely care about animals.

I am suspicious and shocked at what seems like such a radical change, especially since she has made treats for the dog, but never the bird. She also never says she was wrong, just that she is sorry she upset you. However, she seems to be apologizing for being wrong and making a genuine effort. I never expected that.

I can't figure out if she was abducted by aliens, or I am just to suspicious and should be more willing to accept the olive branch. Gosh that sounds mean, I know. :cry:


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